Vegas (or Premiere, Final Cut, Windows Movie Maker etc) is crashing & not opening AVI (or MPEG2, WMV, MP4, etc)
Apologies if I sound a little more "ranty" (well, I often sound ranty . . . ) but so many vidders complain of crashing and freezing and I hope this page will provide answers.
"My PC sucks. Vegas (or Premiere, Final Cut, etc) sucks. It always crashes."
So, let me guess. You're editing with an AVI you downloaded somewhere on the Internet. Or an WMV. Or an MP4. Or you used some "DVD converter" app (like Magic DVD Ripper or something like that) which ripped your DVD and made an AVI (or an WMV, MP4) file. And now you're getting freezing, error messages, or you can't finish rendering your video, or you get a black screen, or you get audio but not video (or video but not audio) . . .
It's because of the types of files you're using. They have a type of video compression ("codec") that makes editing difficult, slow, and sometimes unstable. You need to start editing with a different kind of AVI or MOV file (no, not all MOV and AVI files are the same).
I keep seeing this same complaint, over and over and OVER again.
Those of us who have switched to a better type of AVI or MOV file don't usually experience these problems. Those who continue to use the video files with "bad" codecs are not always so fortunate.
This tutorial would not exist if this problem was not common.
So you're thinking, "No, it can't be the AVI files I'm editing with. It must be something else!" And perhaps sometimes it is. But if this problem wasn't so widespread, and if the solution (switching to a better codec) didn't so often solve it, then I wouldn't have wasted my time writing this tutorial.
Look, your video software is probably fine. It's the types of files that you're editing with that are likely the problem.
"But that can't be it. I used the same files yesterday and they were fine. It's something else! My PC is messed up! It's a virus! It's because I've got an unregistered version of Vegas!"
Probably not. It's most likely the codec you're using. Some of these "bad" types of AVI (or MP4, WMV) have a quirk where they work fine one day, and then suddenly they don't. That's classic behavior for them.
Yes, I know that all your friends have been using the same files and they have no problems. Some people don't have problems, while others do. It's unpredictable. These types of video files were never designed to be edited, so you're taking your chances when you keep using them.
Maybe you'll be one of the lucky ones who will find that some workaround—like installing a different codec pack or special app—will fix your problems (for a while. . .). Maybe, you clicked on the wrong thing in Vegas and that's why it's misbehaving. (Hey, it could happen. Not every single glitch in Vegas is caused by a bad codec.) But usually that isn't it. Usually it's the codec. I'll say it again—if the problems were not so widespread, why would this tutorial exist?
It's not just me who is saying this.
Let's look at some links and quotes from other people, so you'll see that blaming bad codecs isn't some theory that I cooked up all on my own.
From http://aquilinestudios.org/DivX_Editing.html (About editing in DivX, XviD, WMV, MPEG, MP4, etc.) "Here is a list of common problems that can be caused by using such video in an editing program:
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"Problem with AVI file, The Lowdown" (from Adobe Premiere forums, quoting Bill Hunt) (bolding added by me) "Why doesn't my .AVI file Import, or play properly in Premiere? Hey, it’s an .AVI file. Why can’t Premiere work with it? It played fine in Windows Media Player (WMP), and VLC Player. Even QuickTime Player does a good job. What’s up with Premiere? Sound familiar? You may even have asked some of the same questions. What’s the answer? "Premiere cannot usually handle DivX, or its open source cousin, Xvid well, if at all. Most NLE’s [non-linear video editors] can’t either." |
"Compressing a Vegas-compatible file" (from the AnimeMusicVideos.org forum, post by Bagadeshi) I thought Bagadeshi's answer was so spot-on that I quote him (or her?) here. The AMV.org forums are a great place to get technically sound advice for your fan video needs. About editing in XviD, H.264, which uses many incomplete frames and the only "complete" frames are called "keyframes." (Bolding added by me.) ". . . this is generally regarded as bad for editing softwares where you may need to just grab frame# 23 for example, which may not be a keyframe, and so the codec needs to generate the information based on the keyframe before it, which may not always be regenerated exactly the same, not to mention some loss in detail is Inevitable. Also since the codec has to do alot more work in reassembling the information for each frame, its alot slower to edit to Xvid, H264, or any other codec that works that way, than it is to work with a lossless codec." Bagadeshi explains it well: That compressed types of files (like XviD, H.264, etc) have a lot of incomplete frames in them (that's how they can keep their small file size), and this makes your software work extra hard to "reconstruct" everything. Some "lossless" codecs Bagadeshi talks about could be Lagarith, HuffYUV. Other acceptable codecs are DV, MJPEG, and for Macs only, Apple Intermediate codec and ProRes. |
"Types of AVI/MOV for editing? Does it matter?" (from my fanvid forum, Foolish Passion, post by Jazhara) This is a comment made by one of the FP forum members after she followed a tutorial for switching to a "good" codec for editing. "I used to edit in MPEGs before I knew any better. You won't even believe how awful and time-consuming it was. If I hadn't loved vidding so much, the difficulty in making videos might have deterred me or even made me stop. Then Elvira showed me how to convert to the proper AVI and now I haven't had a problem since." |
"MPEG Editors" (from http://tangentsoft.net/video/mpeg/edit.html by Warren Young) (I bolded a phrase for emphasis) "The high road of MPEG editing is to not do it at all. When making MPEG files from AVI or QuickTime files, always keep the source file until you’re sure you are happy with the final MPEG. Editing the MPEG is hard, and restricts your choice of tools. If you absolutely must edit an MPEG file, don’t expect miracles. Always remember that by editing MPEGs, you’re swimming upstream." |
"Sony Vegas pixelates my AVI videos?" (from the AnimeMusicVideos.org forum, post by Haerisis) The person starting the thread was noticing ugly pronounced pixelation in their videos and asked for help. The consensus by everyone on the thread was that the wrong codec was being used. (bolding added by me) "Looks like you're editing Xvid or Divx in Vegas. That's a big no-no. You want to encode your sources with a lossless codec such as Lagarith or Huffy. [HuffYUV]" Haerisis went on to caution that lossless codecs use up more disk space, which is true, but also necessary. There was also a discussion about using a "workaround" which could be troublesome and slow depending on various factors. |
"Can I use MPEG-2 files as a source format and edit them?" (FAQ from Sony Vegas's official customer support site) (bolding added by me.) "Yes, but this is not ideal. MPEG-2 files are heavily compressed and when re-encoded, the quality decreases significantly. Whenever possible, use Video for Windows (.AVI) or QuickTime source material of the highest possible quality." Okay, so Sony says that technically, yes, you can do it with their software. (Some non-linear editors attempt to support MPEG-2, others don't.) But it goes on to say that the quality is severely affected. The answer goes on to mention "frame serving" as an alternative. (Aquillinestudios.org also mentions this option, in the form of an Avisynth script.) If you care about quality, don't edit MPEG-2. |
"Sony Vegas, Editing Sluggish?" (from the VideoHelp forum, posts by David K and Lanno.) VideoHelp.com is another good resource for advice on video-related topics. (bolding added by me) Lanno explains: ". . . my problem is that any video format like .wmv, .mpeg, and pretty much anything that isn't the standard DV .avi, stalls." [DV is considered a "good" codec.] David K replies: "The conventional wisdom is that compressed video formats (like mpeg, xvid etc.) are not designed to be edited. Conventional wisdom is that you convert the compressed format into an uncompressed one to edit. I've never tried to edit Xvids in Vegas, but I assume the problem is that Vegas is having to construct frames on the fly to make up for the compressed frames, and thus the sluggishness of the program. I know you want to save space on your disc drive, but try converting a short Xvid to uncompressed Avi (in Virtual Dub) and then open it up and work on it Vegas, and see if it solves your problem." [This is essentially the same thing that Bagadeshi—who I quoted from the AnimeMusicVideos.org forum—said! Fancy that!] |
Additional quotes and links: (LOL, I am starting a collection!) "Xvid and DivX have been compressed so heavily, that a lot of original quality has been lost irretrievably." Adobe Premiere Pro forums. "Xvid and DivX are completely unsuitable for editing." Adobe Premiere Pro forums. "It's Xvid responsible for your problem. [...] (no NLE natively ever will decode Xvid, it's a delivery format)" Douglas Spotted Eagle (certified Sony Vegas Trainer), DVinfo.net forums. "'I'll say it again, Vegas does not work well with DivX or Xvid. Convert the files to MJPEG, or Huffyuv, or Lagarith, or any intraframe codec. Just don't use Xvid or DivX." John Rofrano (from Vaast, a company which makes Vegas plug-ins and tutorial DVDs) on a Creative Cow thread. "MPEG-4 / h.264 video is HIGHLY compressed and FCP must try to uncompress them on the fly if you choose to work with those formats. It's a HUGE strain on the processors ... which is why it is NOT recommended to use them for editing. After all, they are essentially final delivery formats." David Harbsmeier, Final Cut Pro Support forums, Apple.com. |
"Well, [this other tutorial / my friend / some message board post] says that [this other workaround] will allow me to keep editing with XviD, DivX, WMV, MPEG, MP4."
Go ahead and try! But ask yourself (and/or the person suggesting the other workaround), "What about the incomplete frames?"
In the quotes and links given above, there is talk about how the editing software has to "reconstruct" incomplete frames in XviD (or WMV, MPEG-2, etc) files and how this can sometimes play havoc on the software, cause things to slow down and make for lower quality and instability.
The use of incomplete frames is called "inter-frame compression," by the way, and you can see an example of what it looks like (and clarification on how it works) on this page at AnimeMusicVideos.org. If the person suggesting some other workaround is unable to explain how to resolve the incomplete frames problem (or if they've never even heard of the incomplete frames), then do yourself a favor and take their advice with a grain of salt.
There is actually a valid workaround (mentioned on the Aquilinestudios.org page) using an Avisynth script or "frameserving." (It's listed at the bottom of the page, under the heading "More Complex Way.") That description is right—it is more complex, and won't work well with some systems or software, but if you are willing to learn that method, go for it!
"But I just converted all these shows to (XviD, WMV, whatever) and I don't want to do that again!"
Fine, don't. Deal with the crashing and the freezing instead. How is that working for you? (LOL. Sorry, I get a bit sarcastic sometimes . . . ;-) )
"If I upgrade my PC (or buy a new one) that'll fix the problem."
Come on. Seriously? You're going to buy a whole new computer rather than just switch to a different type of file? What seems cheaper to you—possibly having to buy a $60 external drive to store your files—or a new PC? Look, computer speed always helps when dealing with video editing, but you ever heard of the saying, "Garbage in, garbage out"? That's what some of these file types are. There's no guarantee that the upgraded (or new) PC will deal with them well indefinitely.
And, if a fast computer was the cure-all, then how do you explain that I was able to edit a genuine 720p HD fan video on an old PowerMac made in 2002? (I used a "good" codec for editing, and never had any crashing or stalling. In HD!) How is it that an old moldy Mac from 2002 is able to handle something that your (much newer) computer can't?
"My software says it'll support the type of file I'm using."
If the software says it supports it, then it should work, shouldn't it? Do a search on the software's help or support area and see if something else is causing the crashing or freezing. There are other documented errors that can plague popular video software, and perhaps that's what's going on with you. But also consider that as a general rule, video software is not created with vidders in mind, and some of the types of files we often use are not truly supported. Even footage produced by camcorders is not always well-supported (even though the software claims it'll handle them). So if you continue to have difficulties, consider switching to a tried-and-true editable codec and see if the problem is resolved.
And FYI: Sony's answer for the problem of a clip not showing up in the Vegas timeline: Convert it to DV AVI (DV is a "good" codec).
"Okay, okay, maybe I need to use better codecs. So you know of any tutorials?"
We have plenty of tutorials for you.
- How to convert your DVD rip (or your downloaded AVI files) to Lagarith AVI. (Lagarith is one of the most favored codecs for Windows users.)
- "Rip that clip!" (Converting to DV MOV or AVI for Mac and PC users. Probably the easiest process, but a $20 plug-in is recommended.)
- Save disk space while still editing in a "good" codec (MJPEG, JPEG-2000, Apple Intermediate Codec). Tutorial is on the Foolish Passion fan video forums. Free membership required to access.
- Converting your DVD rip (or HD MKV file) to a format suitable for editing. (For Mac & PC. The top portion of the tutorial is for HD, but the lower portion is for converting DVD rips.)
- What I consider the ultimate guide for quality, from AMV.org (Windows only). Animemusicvideos.org is a very technically thorough tutorial. These guys know their stuff.
"But, I don't know if I have enough disk space to store all these bigger-sized files!"
It's true, Lagarith, DV, they are less compressed or "nonlossy" and as such, use up an average of maybe 1 GB per 5 minutes of footage. That's a lot to adjust to at first. Here are some ways to work around it:
- Trim down to just the scenes you know you will be using, making separate little clips.
- Buy an external hard drive (USB 2.0 or Firewire) and use it to store all your video files. A lot of vidders are doing this. External drives are pretty cheap these days.
- Follow the "Save disk space" tutorial and use slightly lossy (but still stable) codecs like MJPEG or JPEG 2000. (Free forum membership required.)
- Follow this tutorial (using Avidemux) for Mac & PC. A 45-minute video is approximately 5 GB in size and the quality is still pretty good.
For more info on using codecs, and the reasons why some codecs work better than others, read the codec thread here on FP.org, and check out the "AVI, MOV, does it matter?" tutorial on the Foolish Passion Fan Video Forums.